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<head><meta charset="utf-8"><title>meeting 2018-08-30 · t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines · Zulip Chat Archive</title></head>
<h2>Stream: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/index.html">t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines</a></h2>
<h3>Topic: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html">meeting 2018-08-30</a></h3>

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<a name="133057220"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133057220" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133057220">(Aug 30 2018 at 12:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>Welcome to the first official UCG meeting (officially starting in ~20 mins)!</p>
<p>Agenda:<br>
1. (Brief) Introductions <br>
2. Any questions/comments about the format laid out in <a href="https://github.com/rust-rfcs/unsafe-code-guidelines" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-rfcs/unsafe-code-guidelines">https://github.com/rust-rfcs/unsafe-code-guidelines</a><br>
3. Decide on our first active discussion (looks like it will be data structure representation and validity invariants)<br>
4. What are our goals for the next 2 weeks?</p>
<p>These meetings are intended to be more administrative. Deep technical discussions should go on the GH so that we keep the conversations in one place and we have a better record.</p>



<a name="133057334"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133057334" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133057334">(Aug 30 2018 at 12:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>I have taken the liberty of renaming the topic to the form "meeting YYYY-MM-DD"</p>



<a name="133058051"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058051" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058051">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>Ok, I guess we should start. <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="120791">@RalfJ</span> you there?</p>



<a name="133058088"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058088" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058088">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>Hi :)</p>



<a name="133058092"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058092" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058092">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>sorry still catching up in that "area proposal" thread</p>



<a name="133058093"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058093" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058093">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>so many comments...</p>



<a name="133058134"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058134" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058134">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>I should check it there are more I've not yet seen</p>



<a name="133058143"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058143" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058143">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:02)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="emoji emoji-1f408" title="cat">:cat:</span> I'm Diane/avadacatavra. I work on servo/mixed reality/etc. Mostly interested in security.</p>



<a name="133058152"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058152" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058152">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>woah, cat emoji, upped the game here</p>



<a name="133058165"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058165" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058165">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>/me stresses about what emoji to use for their own intro</p>



<a name="133058174"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058174" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058174">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>I dont even need an emoji for my nick :D</p>
<p>φ</p>



<a name="133058177"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058177" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058177">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>except that the font they use here is the ugly phi :(</p>



<a name="133058190"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058190" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058190">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>/me sighs</p>



<a name="133058191"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058191" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058191">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>ok sorry :)</p>



<a name="133058242"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058242" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058242">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm nikomatsakis, work on compiler/lang/etc, but maybe you know me by now :P</p>



<a name="133058250"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058250" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058250">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm Ralf, working on unsafe code and CTFE/miri.</p>



<a name="133058252"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058252" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058252">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>hi <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> hi <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="120791">@RalfJ</span></p>



<a name="133058253"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058253" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058253">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>also, it's just the three of us, right?^^</p>



<a name="133058269"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058269" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058269">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>seems that way</p>



<a name="133058284"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058284" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058284">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>nice to meet you strangers <span class="emoji emoji-1f958" title="paella">:paella:</span></p>



<a name="133058293"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058293" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058293">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>/me doesn't get these emoji autocompletes...</p>



<a name="133058341"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058341" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058341">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>anyways. it looks like we have one option for our upcoming active discussion: Data Structure Representation and Validity Invariants</p>



<a name="133058359"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058359" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058359">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>Well so <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="120791">@RalfJ</span> left a comment there that is worth thinking over:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>As far as I am concerned, I have very little to say for bullet 1 (data structure layout guarantees), but a lot of thoughts on 2 (once a layout is fixed, what are the validity requirements). So I feel like these are fairly separate. But that may just be my particular point of view.</p>
</blockquote>



<a name="133058365"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058365" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058365">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>well one question I just raised is if... yeah what niko said</p>



<a name="133058374"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058374" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058374">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>in particular I think it's a good idea to try and narrow the discussion as much as we can and it's possible I lumped in more than we need</p>



<a name="133058398"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058398" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058398">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>I have yet to see a cross-cutting question here, I have to say</p>



<a name="133058409"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058409" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058409">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>like, all the comments so far fall squarely on one side</p>



<a name="133058410"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058410" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058410">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>Do we think there's enough consensus on layout guarantees to just write up stuff about it</p>



<a name="133058416"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058416" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058416">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:07)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>like, all the comments so far fall squarely on one side</p>
</blockquote>
<p>which side do you think that is :)</p>



<a name="133058419"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058419" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058419">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:07)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>Do we think there's enough consensus on layout guarantees to just write up stuff about it</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I do not</p>



<a name="133058466"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058466" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058466">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:08)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<blockquote>
<p>like, all the comments so far fall squarely on one side</p>
</blockquote>
<p>which side do you think that is :)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>not the same for all comments^^</p>



<a name="133058469"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058469" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058469">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think there is a kind of "broad consensus" but the details differ</p>



<a name="133058477"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058477" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058477">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>ah <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="120791">@RalfJ</span> I see what you mean</p>



<a name="133058478"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058478" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058478">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>but each comment thread is here or there, is what I mean</p>



<a name="133058479"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058479" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058479">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>ok yes</p>



<a name="133058483"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058483" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058483">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think if I were gonna pick though</p>



<a name="133058485"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058485" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058485">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'd be inclined to start by focusing on the layout side of things</p>



<a name="133058486"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058486" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058486">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>Maybe we should split it into data structure layout guarantees and then do validity requirements once layout is fixed</p>



<a name="133058488"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058488" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058488">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>it seems <em>more</em> close to consensus</p>



<a name="133058518"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058518" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058518">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>let me skim over the doc then</p>



<a name="133058524"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058524" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058524">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>fine for me. if you can finish that in September, that would nicely bridge the time where I am away :D</p>



<a name="133058528"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058528" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058528">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>So procedurally, what will that look like? Closing that PR and opening up 2 more?</p>



<a name="133058533"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058533" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058533">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>with a discussion I will not have much to contribute to</p>



<a name="133058599"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058599" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058599">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:10)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>So procedurally, what will that look like? Closing that PR and opening up 2 more?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I think so</p>



<a name="133058609"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058609" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058609">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don't particularly want to have a "proposal" PR open for 2 more weeks</p>



<a name="133058611"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058611" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058611">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>:)</p>



<a name="133058616"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058616" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058616">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>but we could perhaps jump ahead to selecting that option</p>



<a name="133058617"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058617" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058617">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>ok then close and reopen layout and put the other as an issue?</p>



<a name="133058629"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058629" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058629">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes; I am somewhat indifferent as to whether we close/open a new PR or not but</p>



<a name="133058644"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058644" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058644">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>my inclination is to split off things that seem to be "invariant"-related into an issue</p>



<a name="133058647"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058647" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058647">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>and keep the rest</p>



<a name="133058653"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058653" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058653">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don't anticipate a lot of controversy over the selection</p>



<a name="133058654"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058654" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058654">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>sounds good. it's your pr so however you want to do it</p>



<a name="133058704"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058704" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058704">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>so looking over some the details...</p>



<a name="133058706"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058706" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058706">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:12)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>I don't particularly want to have a "proposal" PR open for 2 more weeks</p>
</blockquote>
<p>why not? are you worried too much discussion will happen there?</p>



<a name="133058714"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058714" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058714">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>basically because I'd rather get <em>on</em> with the discussion</p>



<a name="133058721"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058721" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058721">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe this mechanic of "proposed areas" is silly, idk</p>



<a name="133058722"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058722" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058722">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>although I think it's kind of a "getting started" problem</p>



<a name="133058734"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058734" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058734">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>that is, maybe once we have some ongoing conversations, it'll feel more natural? unclear</p>



<a name="133058738"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058738" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058738">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>well we could accept one to be disccused later. as in, the PR with the discussion area for validity invariants gets merged but the area not yet activated</p>



<a name="133058742"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058742" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058742">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>sure</p>



<a name="133058748"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058748" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058748">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>works for me</p>



<a name="133058751"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058751" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058751">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>but let me first ask a slightly different question:</p>



<a name="133058753"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058753" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058753">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:13)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>Can a C-like enum ever have an invalid discriminant? (Presumably not)</p>
</blockquote>



<a name="133058754"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058754" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058754">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:13)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>maybe this mechanic of "proposed areas" is silly, idk</p>
</blockquote>
<p>dont think so. it helps focus on some part of this huge design space.</p>



<a name="133058788"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058788" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058788">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>something like that... is presumably an "invariant" topic?</p>



<a name="133058801"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058801" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058801">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yeah I'd say so</p>



<a name="133058803"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058803" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058803">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>agreed</p>



<a name="133058810"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058810" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058810">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>layout stuff would really just be like "how many bytes are allocated" etc</p>



<a name="133058818"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058818" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058818">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>so e.g. <code>Option&lt;&amp;T&gt;</code> being a pointer — yes</p>



<a name="133058821"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058821" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058821">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>basically layout stuff is computing the <code>TyLayout</code></p>



<a name="133058825"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058825" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058825">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess this is the place where it connects</p>



<a name="133058830"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058830" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058830">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>the niches bit</p>



<a name="133058834"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058834" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058834">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>but we can just kind of factor that out, presumably, and say "where the invariant leaves a niche..."</p>



<a name="133058852"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058852" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058852">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>layout is whether we use a niche or a tag</p>



<a name="133058854"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058854" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058854">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>validity is what the rules are that follow from this</p>



<a name="133058862"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058862" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058862">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>as I said above, layout is computing the <code>TyLayout</code> :)</p>



<a name="133058870"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058870" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058870">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think that answers all your questions</p>



<a name="133058876"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058876" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058876">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>so, to back up a second, you are presuming then that we would first define the layouts we want</p>



<a name="133058878"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058878" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058878">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>so, the C enum thing is actually maybe layout. because <code>TyLayout</code> contains a <code>range</code></p>



<a name="133058926"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058926" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058926">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>(<span class="user-mention" data-user-id="126854">@avadacatavra</span> do you know what we mean by "niche" etc?)</p>



<a name="133058931"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058931" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058931">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>I have a slightly related followup: what should we do with topics previously discussed in this channel (error compat/exhaustiveness)</p>



<a name="133058937"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058937" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058937">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:16)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> i do not</p>



<a name="133058950"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058950" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058950">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:16)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>I have a slightly related followup: what should we do with topics previously discussed in this channel (error compat/exhaustiveness)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>here, I would expect to propose them in the future where eneded</p>



<a name="133058956"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058956" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058956">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:16)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> sounds good to me</p>



<a name="133058961"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058961" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058961">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>though both of those are perhaps straying into "language extensions" -- e.g., the addition of a <code>!</code> pattern</p>



<a name="133058964"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058964" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058964">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>well for exhaustiveness I'd hope someone writes an RFC for <code>!</code> patterns^^</p>



<a name="133058977"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058977" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058977">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>(not sure about error compat, depends I guess)</p>



<a name="133058979"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058979" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058979">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>and then this is covered by validity</p>



<a name="133058986"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058986" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058986">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:17)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>(not sure about error compat, depends I guess)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>we'll probably run into it when we talk about ffi and decide then</p>



<a name="133058989"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133058989" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133058989">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>on the topic of niches: the idea <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="126854">@avadacatavra</span> is that some types have invalid values or unused bits that we can take advantage of for doing layout</p>



<a name="133059069"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059069" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059069">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:18)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="119009">@eddyb</span> was calling these 'niches' in the layout code — tbh I'm not that sure precisely how they used the term. :P But I would use it in a pretty general sense of "does this value have space to store a discriminant" (if not, we must use a separate tag)</p>



<a name="133059083"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059083" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059083">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:19)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> and when we're talking about layout, is this just for when we need to interop with other languages? or general memory layout</p>



<a name="133059097"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059097" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059097">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:19)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="126854">@avadacatavra</span> general layout</p>



<a name="133059106"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059106" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059106">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>sort of both, I would say</p>



<a name="133059111"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059111" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059111">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>also concerning <code>transmute</code> in Rust etc.</p>



<a name="133059117"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059117" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059117">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>that is, we internally do optimizations</p>



<a name="133059120"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059120" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059120">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>/me throws salt over shoulder to ward off <code>transmute</code></p>



<a name="133059139"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059139" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059139">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>and we need to make room for that by defining our validity invariants appropriately, but we also want to talk about which ones we <strong>guarantee</strong> that we will keep doing</p>



<a name="133059140"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059140" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059140">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:20)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="126854">@avadacatavra</span> you picked the wrong stream for that :P</p>



<a name="133059203"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059203" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059203">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>anyway ok so I think <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="120791">@RalfJ</span> you are saying that in <em>this</em> discussion we should enumerate what layout is doing</p>



<a name="133059209"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059209" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059209">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>which is then an input into the validity invariant: it must support that</p>



<a name="133059213"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059213" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> eddyb <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059213">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>I would avoid spreading the use of the word "niche", it's too ad-hoc IMO</p>



<a name="133059221"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059221" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059221">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm game to pick a better one :)</p>



<a name="133059226"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059226" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059226">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:20)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="119009">@eddyb</span> what term would you suggest?</p>



<a name="133059231"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059231" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> eddyb <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059231">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>what you want is "invalid" or "impossible" values / value ranges</p>



<a name="133059247"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059247" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059247">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:21)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> yes. validity will say more than layout in places (e.g. layout does not capture that <code>char</code> must be a valid unicode codepoint), but it needs validity as basis.</p>



<a name="133059262"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059262" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> eddyb <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059262">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>in the code, the antonym of niches is "valid (value) range"</p>



<a name="133059264"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059264" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059264">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:21)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="119009">@eddyb</span> do we presently use padding bits in any way ?</p>



<a name="133059266"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059266" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059266">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess we don't</p>



<a name="133059269"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059269" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> eddyb <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059269">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>nope and it's very hard to do so</p>



<a name="133059271"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059271" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059271">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>it would be .. hard to do</p>



<a name="133059274"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059274" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059274">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes, ok</p>



<a name="133059317"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059317" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059317">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>then I agree with your refinement of the term</p>



<a name="133059324"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059324" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059324">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>"niche" suggests to me a "place for hiding something" -- which feels more like padding :)</p>



<a name="133059327"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059327" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> eddyb <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059327">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>you can't do pointer tagging <em>at all</em> without a sort of opt-in that we don't have right now</p>



<a name="133059334"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059334" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059334">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>yep</p>



<a name="133059336"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059336" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059336">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>ok</p>



<a name="133059345"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059345" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> eddyb <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059345">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>errr you said padding not alignment. but both are similar, heh</p>



<a name="133059347"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059347" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059347">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>(though I think it's still relevant because unsafe code)</p>



<a name="133059363"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059363" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> eddyb <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059363">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>the "niche" metaphor is for ranges within a scalar, to be super clear</p>



<a name="133059386"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059386" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059386">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>e.g., if you write pointer tagging code yourself, you are relying on alignment guarantees</p>



<a name="133059390"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059390" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> eddyb <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059390">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>and yeah it's suboptimal (heh)</p>



<a name="133059398"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059398" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059398">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>anyway ok let's go with "invalid values"</p>



<a name="133059409"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059409" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059409">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:23)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="119009">@eddyb</span> we could refine the range for e.g. <code>&amp;mut i32</code> to be <code>4..=usize::max</code> instead of <code>1..=usize::max</code>, right?</p>



<a name="133059420"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059420" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059420">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>that would be exploiting alignment</p>



<a name="133059433"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059433" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059433">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>if it's ok, I'm going to try and redirect this conversation towards determining what our goals should be for the next two weeks, with Data Structure Representation/Layout as our active topic</p>



<a name="133059456"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059456" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059456">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>I was just trying to write a comment doing the same :)</p>



<a name="133059495"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059495" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> eddyb <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059495">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:24)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="emoji emoji-1f44d" title="+1">:+1:</span></p>



<a name="133059513"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059513" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059513">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>/me facilitates muahahahaha</p>



<a name="133059538"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059538" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> eddyb <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059538">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>lol zulip mobile app just sort of froze</p>



<a name="133059548"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059548" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059548">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>to recap, goal for the PR is to:</p>
<ul>
<li>split out talk of "validity invariant" and leave that for the future</li>
<li>define the "invalid ranges" for values that we require currently (and those we want to guarantee)</li>
<li>merge the PR and open discussion topics where appropriate</li>
</ul>



<a name="133059568"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059568" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059568">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>I wanted to ask a question about the last one — should I just open a bunch of issues for various types?</p>



<a name="133059586"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059586" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059586">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>seems reasonable because I expect these discussions to be largely orthogonal</p>



<a name="133059591"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059591" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059591">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:25)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> i think so</p>



<a name="133059595"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059595" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059595">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>otoh I think the "memory layout" of <code>u32</code> is not very controversial :)</p>



<a name="133059615"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059615" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059615">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>you can probably do some grouping</p>



<a name="133059619"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059619" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059619">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I can lump those into integral.. we can talk about what we want to say about <code>usize</code> I guess</p>



<a name="133059621"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059621" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059621">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah</p>



<a name="133059627"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059627" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> eddyb <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059627">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:25)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="120791">@RalfJ</span> yes but it's hard because we allow data type recursion through indirection and you now have to compute <em>an approximation</em> of alignment in a secondary, potentially brittle way</p>



<a name="133059660"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059660" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059660">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>it seems like a lot of the work here is going to be trying to write out actual prose</p>



<a name="133059702"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059702" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059702">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe we start with bullet lists or something</p>



<a name="133059707"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059707" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059707">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>i think that if we don't split them out into at least groups of types we'll have a lot of cross talk and the discussion will be difficult to follow</p>



<a name="133059740"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059740" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059740">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah, is layout up for debate for any primitive type?</p>



<a name="133059749"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059749" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059749">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>not really</p>



<a name="133059755"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059755" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059755">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'd say our goals should be what niko said, and then writing up the uncontroversial ones</p>



<a name="133059772"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059772" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059772">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>well, the only thing I would want to talk about — there are some esoteric bits like <code>extern "C" fn(...)</code> and its relationship to pointers that come up a lot</p>



<a name="133059776"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059776" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059776">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>and then we just have... two big groups: struct/tuple/array, and enum. they probably have subgroups though.</p>



<a name="133059784"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059784" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059784">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>then, next meeting see what (if any) controversies exist and where to go from there</p>



<a name="133059788"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059788" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059788">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>sounds good</p>



<a name="133059797"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059797" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059797">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess for each issue we can have a kind of bullet list in the topic</p>



<a name="133059801"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059801" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059801">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>next meeting is in 2 weeks? I am on vacation then</p>



<a name="133059805"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059805" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059805">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>and in 4 weeks I am travelling^^</p>



<a name="133059811"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059811" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059811">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>you're difficult :)</p>



<a name="133059815"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059815" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059815">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:27)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>well, the only thing I would want to talk about — there are some esoteric bits like <code>extern "C" fn(...)</code> and its relationship to pointers that come up a lot</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I dont think I get the question</p>



<a name="133059819"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059819" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059819">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>as you said though, this is an area you don't care too much about</p>



<a name="133059821"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059821" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059821">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:28)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>you're difficult :)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>September is difficult^^</p>



<a name="133059867"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059867" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059867">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>I also don't feel the need to be <strong>super strict</strong> about every two weeks</p>



<a name="133059870"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059870" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> eddyb <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059870">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>btw random comment: I think <a href="https://internals.rust-lang.org/t/mir-constant-evaluation/3143/31" target="_blank" title="https://internals.rust-lang.org/t/mir-constant-evaluation/3143/31">https://internals.rust-lang.org/t/mir-constant-evaluation/3143/31</a> is probably still relevant in its imitation of a formal spec, so I'd love to see, one day, the real spec for the "Rust (CTFE) abstract machine"</p>



<a name="133059889"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059889" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059889">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:28)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>I dont think I get the question</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Probably not worth digging into now. I'll write up some specific examples in the issue :)</p>



<a name="133059892"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059892" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059892">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:29)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="119009">@eddyb</span> totally. though if you want something thats sound wrt. LLVM, dont hold your breath. there are some open academic problems in that area^^</p>



<a name="133059906"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059906" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059906">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>Good chat--my cat is attacking me so I'm going to say we have a good starting point and go feed him before i have no blood left</p>



<a name="133059908"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059908" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059908">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'll write up these notes and put them in the gh</p>



<a name="133059909"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059909" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059909">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>sounds good</p>



<a name="133059911"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059911" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059911">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>plus we are at 30 minutes</p>



<a name="133059913"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059913" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059913">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>:)</p>



<a name="133059921"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059921" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059921">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>cat timer ftw!</p>



<a name="133059922"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059922" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059922">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>perfectly on time :D</p>



<a name="133059938"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059938" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059938">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:29)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>I'll write up these notes and put them in the gh</p>
</blockquote>
<p>great... I was going to post something to an internals thread we can re-use too. Probably just a link to the discussion and minutes from GH if we need</p>



<a name="133059940"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133059940" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> eddyb <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133059940">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>like one layout thing I care about is: do we use octets? :P</p>



<a name="133060027"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133060027" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133060027">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>awesome, thanks all!</p>



<a name="133060031"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133060031" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133060031">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>6-bit bytes ftw</p>



<a name="133060037"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133060037" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133060037">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:30)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="119009">@eddyb</span> as in, 8-bit bytes? of course not, see <a href="https://www.ralfj.de/blog/2018/07/24/pointers-and-bytes.html" target="_blank" title="https://www.ralfj.de/blog/2018/07/24/pointers-and-bytes.html">https://www.ralfj.de/blog/2018/07/24/pointers-and-bytes.html</a> :P</p>



<a name="133060069"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133060069" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> eddyb <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133060069">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don't mean <code>Fin 256</code>, but rather the unit of measurement that <code>size_of</code> returns in</p>



<a name="133060083"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133060083" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133060083">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:31)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="126854">@avadacatavra</span> posted this:</p>
<p><a href="https://internals.rust-lang.org/t/unsafe-code-guidelines-meetings/8335/2?u=nikomatsakis" target="_blank" title="https://internals.rust-lang.org/t/unsafe-code-guidelines-meetings/8335/2?u=nikomatsakis">https://internals.rust-lang.org/t/unsafe-code-guidelines-meetings/8335/2?u=nikomatsakis</a></p>



<a name="133060127"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133060127" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133060127">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>well given that <code>mem::size_of::&lt;u8&gt;() == 1</code>, I think the ratio of 8 is kind of engrained in the language</p>



<a name="133060133"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133060133" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133060133">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>anyway I've got a bit of time before compiler meeting so I guess I will work on that now</p>



<a name="133060162"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133060162" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133060162">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>:)</p>



<a name="133060166"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133060166" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> eddyb <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133060166">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>having <code>u8</code> as a type does make our situation less ambiguous by default than C's <code>char</code></p>



<a name="133060749"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133060749" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133060749">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>oh ps so excited this conversation is getting started <span class="emoji emoji-1f389" title="tada">:tada:</span></p>



<a name="133060889"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133060889" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133060889">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:44)</a>:</h4>
<p><em>HYPE</em></p>



<a name="133060913"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133060913" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133060913">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>way to burst my <span class="emoji emoji-1f388" title="balloon">:balloon:</span> <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="120791">@RalfJ</span></p>



<a name="133060934"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133060934" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133060934">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>hu? this was meant affirmative...</p>



<a name="133061339"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133061339" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133061339">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>oh :)</p>



<a name="133061346"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133061346" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133061346">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>I thought you were saying "it's all HYPE nothing will happen"</p>



<a name="133061350"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133061350" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133061350">(Aug 30 2018 at 13:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>/me ever the pessimist</p>



<a name="133062504"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133062504" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133062504">(Aug 30 2018 at 14:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>I meant to say "lets HYPE this its awesome :D"</p>



<a name="133066662"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133066662" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jake Goulding <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133066662">(Aug 30 2018 at 15:20)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>do you know what we mean by "niche" etc?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I think establishing a glossary feels important for this work.</p>



<a name="133066821"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133066821" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jake Goulding <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133066821">(Aug 30 2018 at 15:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>Even (especially?) for terms that are "obvious" to make sure people are talking about the same things</p>



<a name="133066943"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133066943" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jake Goulding <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133066943">(Aug 30 2018 at 15:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>examples from a quick skim: "layout", "niche" (or whatever you call it), "tag".</p>



<a name="133068126"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133068126" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nicole Mazzuca <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133068126">(Aug 30 2018 at 15:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>why did you have a meeting at 6 in the morning? also, I'm a part of the unsafe code guidelines team, right?</p>



<a name="133068309"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133068309" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133068309">(Aug 30 2018 at 15:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>This meeting is sort of an administrative one to decide which topics to focus on. We had a doodle poll and 9am worked good for everyone (in particular, some people are in Europe) — anyway, the intention is that people shouldn't really have to attend, because we'll never find a time that satisfies everyone.</p>



<a name="133068335"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133068335" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133068335">(Aug 30 2018 at 15:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>(did you read the <a href="https://internals.rust-lang.org/t/proposal-for-unsafe-code-guidelines-process/8294/" target="_blank" title="https://internals.rust-lang.org/t/proposal-for-unsafe-code-guidelines-process/8294/">process proposal I posted to internals</a>?)</p>



<a name="133068372"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133068372" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133068372">(Aug 30 2018 at 15:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>all we talked about here was how to narrow the focus of <a href="https://github.com/rust-rfcs/unsafe-code-guidelines/pull/5" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-rfcs/unsafe-code-guidelines/pull/5">https://github.com/rust-rfcs/unsafe-code-guidelines/pull/5</a> — in particular, we wanted to focus <em>just</em> on layout</p>



<a name="133068416"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133068416" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133068416">(Aug 30 2018 at 15:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>as a starting point</p>



<a name="133068440"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133068440" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133068440">(Aug 30 2018 at 15:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>anyway tl;dr <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="125253">@Nicole Mazzuca</span> sorry didn't meant to exclude you (should probably have said that first), but in any case I don't think you missed much.</p>



<a name="133073109"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133073109" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nicole Mazzuca <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133073109">(Aug 30 2018 at 17:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>fair, I did not read the internals thread :P</p>



<a name="133073120"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133073120" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nicole Mazzuca <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133073120">(Aug 30 2018 at 17:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>there are like, two too many different places where these things get put :P</p>



<a name="133073704"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133073704" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133073704">(Aug 30 2018 at 17:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>hopefully we'll iron out the kinks. I'm trying to consolidate the key discussion bits in the <a href="https://github.com/rust-rfcs/unsafe-code-guidelines/" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-rfcs/unsafe-code-guidelines/">https://github.com/rust-rfcs/unsafe-code-guidelines/</a> repository</p>



<a name="133073706"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133073706" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> alercah <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133073706">(Aug 30 2018 at 17:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>+1</p>



<a name="133073717"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133073717" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> alercah <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133073717">(Aug 30 2018 at 17:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>(to the "two too many different places")</p>



<a name="133073851"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133073851" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nicole Mazzuca <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133073851">(Aug 30 2018 at 17:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>s/two/three/ too many different places :P</p>



<a name="133074492"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133074492" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133074492">(Aug 30 2018 at 17:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>It's good that we have most discussion asynchronously. I like my evenings free of such obligations -- and yet after 18:00 UTC+2 is the only time that works once UTC-7 (west coast) wants to join. (I've had earlier meetings with Aaron but I guess either he likes being in the office at 8am or there are other reasons he has to be there anyway.^^)</p>



<a name="133074516"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133074516" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133074516">(Aug 30 2018 at 17:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yes, asynchronous discussion is exactly my goal</p>



<a name="133074761"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133074761" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nicole Mazzuca <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133074761">(Aug 30 2018 at 17:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>I mean, I'm fine with meeting at 8 in the morning; just need to know about meetings :P</p>



<a name="133074801"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133074801" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133074801">(Aug 30 2018 at 17:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>plan is to meet roughly every two weeks, just for the record, to try and monitor how discussion is going, figure out when it makes sense to change focused discussion topics, etc</p>



<a name="133074811"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133074811" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133074811">(Aug 30 2018 at 17:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>that may or may not be the right frequency :)</p>



<a name="133075426"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133075426" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133075426">(Aug 30 2018 at 17:59)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>I mean, I'm fine with meeting at 8 in the morning; just need to know about meetings :P</p>
</blockquote>
<p>That'd be 17:00 here which is perfectly fine.</p>



<a name="133076105"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133076105" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nicole Mazzuca <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133076105">(Aug 30 2018 at 18:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>(could we actually do 8:30? that's much nicer for me, because that's when I'm actually done getting coffee and such)</p>



<a name="133076176"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133076176" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> alercah <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133076176">(Aug 30 2018 at 18:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>8:30 pacific or eastern?</p>



<a name="133076188"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133076188" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nicole Mazzuca <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133076188">(Aug 30 2018 at 18:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>pacific, I'm in Seattle</p>



<a name="133076225"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133076225" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133076225">(Aug 30 2018 at 18:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>well my bus goes at 17:55</p>



<a name="133076229"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133076229" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133076229">(Aug 30 2018 at 18:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>the next is at 18:55</p>



<a name="133076239"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133076239" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> alercah <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133076239">(Aug 30 2018 at 18:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>ok, 8:30 pacific is pretty easy for me, as long as it's not Friday</p>



<a name="133076253"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133076253" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133076253">(Aug 30 2018 at 18:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>so if we start 17:30 my time, I either have to leave after half the meeting or be in the office way too long</p>



<a name="133076259"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133076259" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133076259">(Aug 30 2018 at 18:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>8:15 your time (UTC-7) aka 17:15 UTC+2 would work fine though. Then I'd have to leave exactly on time.^^</p>



<a name="133076460"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133076460" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133076460">(Aug 30 2018 at 18:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm ok with any of those; <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="126854">@avadacatavra</span> ?</p>



<a name="133076663"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133076663" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Frank McSherry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133076663">(Aug 30 2018 at 18:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>All hear this: <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116609">@Frank McSherry</span> is here to agitate in support of abomonation-esque zero-copy binary re-interpretation. Maybe everyone thinks that this is a horrible idea, but I'll do my best to push back! :D</p>



<a name="133076679"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133076679" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133076679">(Aug 30 2018 at 18:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>&lt;3</p>



<a name="133076751"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133076751" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Frank McSherry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133076751">(Aug 30 2018 at 18:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>This may be the wrong channel. Hear me now: while I cannot yet click on the right Zulip buttons, I nonetheless have strong opinions about high-performance computing.</p>



<a name="133076781"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133076781" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133076781">(Aug 30 2018 at 18:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm wondering right now whether any of the <a href="https://github.com/rust-rfcs/unsafe-code-guidelines/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3Atopic-repr" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-rfcs/unsafe-code-guidelines/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3Atopic-repr">GitHub  issues</a> are a good fit :)</p>



<a name="133076782"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133076782" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133076782">(Aug 30 2018 at 18:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess sort of "all of them"</p>



<a name="133076792"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133076792" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133076792">(Aug 30 2018 at 18:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>we're mostly talking now about <em>which</em> Rust types would have defined binary representations</p>



<a name="133076842"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133076842" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133076842">(Aug 30 2018 at 18:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>the question of if/when you can reinterpret is another good one...</p>



<a name="133076882"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133076882" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133076882">(Aug 30 2018 at 18:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>doesn't that directly follow? if two types have the same defined binary repr, you can reinterpret</p>



<a name="133076891"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133076891" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133076891">(Aug 30 2018 at 18:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>on the fundamental language level</p>



<a name="133076900"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133076900" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133076900">(Aug 30 2018 at 18:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>of course, it being "valid" does not imply it is <em>safe</em></p>



<a name="133093258"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133093258" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133093258">(Aug 30 2018 at 23:42)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="120791">@RalfJ</span> <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> timezones are hard. i think that time works... 1715 ralf's time? aka 1515 UTC right?</p>



<a name="133093989"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133093989" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jake Goulding <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133093989">(Aug 31 2018 at 00:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>Useful for these things: <a href="https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meeting.html" target="_blank" title="https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meeting.html">https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meeting.html</a></p>



<a name="133449733"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133449733" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133449733">(Sep 06 2018 at 15:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>PS if anybody wants their e-mail to be added to the calendar invite, let me know</p>



<a name="133456190"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133456190" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nicole Mazzuca <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133456190">(Sep 06 2018 at 17:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>please add me, <a href="mailto:npmazzuca@gmail.com" title="mailto:npmazzuca@gmail.com">npmazzuca@gmail.com</a></p>



<a name="133505828"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133505828" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Frank McSherry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133505828">(Sep 07 2018 at 12:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'd like to be added too! (you should have my address).</p>



<a name="133509571"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133509571" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133509571">(Sep 07 2018 at 13:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>done</p>



<a name="133526080"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133526080" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Aaron Weiss <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133526080">(Sep 07 2018 at 17:42)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> I would also appreciate being added. <span class="emoji emoji-263a" title="smile">:smile:</span></p>



<a name="133581806"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133581806" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> alercah <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133581806">(Sep 08 2018 at 21:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>please add me at <a href="mailto:lexer@google.com" title="mailto:lexer@google.com">lexer@google.com</a></p>



<a name="133967444"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting%202018-08-30/near/133967444" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jake Goulding <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting.202018-08-30.html#133967444">(Sep 14 2018 at 17:31)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>please add me at <a href="mailto:lexer@google.com" title="mailto:lexer@google.com">lexer@google.com</a></p>
</blockquote>
<p>That's a pretty awesome email...</p>



<hr><p>Last updated: Aug 07 2021 at 22:04 UTC</p>
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